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A futuristic new project imagines the possibility of molding lava into building material, thereby reducing the carbon emissions associated with construction.

Two MPA-ESP students hosted a film screening and discussion on rainforest conservation and the role of young people in shaping its future.

Documentary film “The Color of Ice” explores the voices impacted by climate change.

California lawmakers advance vital chemical safety, food reforms EWG supports rcoleman May 23, 2025 SACRAMENTO – In a major win for public health, five bills targeting harmful ultra-processed food and hazardous chemicals in drinking water and specific products cleared the California Assembly and Senate appropriations committees today.They include a bill that, if enacted, would make California the first state to adopt new standards for ultra-processed foods, as well as a bill that would require consumer disclosures for prenatal vitamins. Another bill would set strong water standards for the “forever chemicals” known as PFAS, amid threat of a rollback of Environmental Protection Agency PFAS water limits. Finally, two other bills that would limit toxic chemicals in food packaging and other products also passed this important milestone. The Environmental Working Group is a co-sponsor of all these bills.“From classrooms to kitchen tables, California is taking concrete steps to reduce everyday exposures to toxic chemicals and protect public health and the environment,” said Bernadette Del Chiaro, EWG’s senior vice president for California.“These bills reflect growing momentum in California to close dangerous loopholes in chemical safety,” continued Del Chiaro. “Lawmakers are standing up for parents, children and vulnerable communities by moving forward commonsense protections that should have been in place long ago.”Assembly billsThe Assembly Appropriations Committee approved three EWG-backed bills, advancing them to the full Assembly.AB 794, by Assemblymember Jesse Gabriel (D-Encino), would mandate new state drinking water standards to protect Californians from exposure to PFAS, which has been linked to serious health harms, including cancer, cardiovascular diseases, reproductive harm and developmental issues in infants and children. Recent tests suggest that nearly 19 million Californians have tap water with PFAS contamination.“With almost 19 million Californians exposed to PFAS from their tap, California cannot afford to rely on federal action,” said Del Chiaro. “Especially given the threat of backsliding by the EPA on PFAS, California must take bold action now to set its own drinking water limits for these toxic forever chemicals.”AB 1148, authored by Assemblymember LaShae Sharp-Collins, Ed.D. (D-San Diego), would restrict the manufacture, distribution and sale of food packaging containing two concerning additives. AB 1264, authored by Gabriel, is a first-in-the-nation bill that would phase out certain “particularly harmful” ultra-processed foods, or UPF, out of meals served in public schools. If signed into law, it would also establish a first-in-the-nation legal definition for UPF.“Processed foods can have a place in a healthy diet, but Americans – especially children – consume too many ultra-processed foods, which is contributing to increased rates of cancer, heart disease and behavioral issues in children and diabetes,” said Del Chiaro.  “AB 1264 takes an important step toward protecting children’s health by identifying and removing the most harmful ultra-processed foods from California public schools,” she added. “We commend Assemblymember Gabriel and all of the bill’s co-authors for taking commonsense steps toward better protecting the well-being of California’s children.”Senate billsThe Senate Appropriations Committee also considered and approved two EWG-sponsored bills, moving them along for consideration by the full Senate in the next two weeks.SB 646, authored by Senator Dr. Akilah Weber Pierson (D-San Diego) would require prenatal vitamin manufacturers to test for and publicly disclose levels of potentially harmful heavy metals in their products.If the bill is signed into law, California would set a precedent for stronger maternal health protections nationwide. The measure would require manufacturers to regularly test a representative sample of their products and post results online, beginning in 2027.“Expecting mothers deserve transparency about the ingredients in the supplements they take to support their health and their baby’s growth,” said Susan Little, EWG legislative director for California. “It’s alarming to find heavy metals in prenatal vitamins. This bill is a critical step toward giving consumers the facts and pushing companies to make safer products.”SB 682, authored by Sen. Ben Allen (D-Santa Monica), would prohibit the sale or distribution of nearly all products containing intentionally added PFAS, on a schedule from 2027 to 2040. The bill would also create a regulatory program to enforce and carry out the bill’s prohibitions.### The Environmental Working Group (EWG) is a nonprofit, non-partisan organization that empowers people to live healthier lives in a healthier environment. Through research, advocacy and unique education tools, EWG drives consumer choice and civic action. Areas of Focus Toxic Chemicals Regional Issues California Press Contact Iris Myers iris@ewg.org (202) 939-9126 May 23, 2025

Transcript of EWG podcast ‘Ken Cook Is Having Another Episode' – Episode 33 JR Culpepper May 22, 2025 In this podcast episode, EWG President and co-Founder Ken Cook talks with Dr. Aly Cohen about how lifestyle changes can help with protecting the immune system. Cohen is a triple board-certified physician in rheumatology, internal medicine and integrative medicine. She’s the author of the just-released book “Detoxify: The Everyday Toxins Harming Your Immune System and How to Defend Against Them.” She uses her knowledge as a physician to suggest ways that people can live healthier lives by taking steps to defend against exposure to harmful toxins.Disclaimer: This transcript was compiled using software and may include typographical errorKen: Hello, this is Ken Cook and I'm having another episode. You can tell because I have a coffee mug, so it's real. This is a really good episode, and the reason it's good is because my pal ally mentor, teacher, inspiration sister. Dr. Aly Cohen is with me today, and she's been a champion of EWG for well over a decade.We've admired her work, we've been guided by it. She's one of the rare physicians who's been willing to not just personalize her advice to make you live a healthier life, but also integrate the whole notion of the environment and how that affects our health. Now, there are times when society needs to act, when the government needs to do its job.But today we're gonna focus on what you can do for your health, your own agency. Dr. Aly Cohen has a new book out today, detoxify the Everyday Toxins harming Your Immune System and how to Defend against them. We're super excited to share this episode on the day this book comes out because there are so many great tips that you can follow that will make a big difference in your life.I opened my conversation with Dr. Cohen by letting her know that her work has given me lots of episodes of inspiration and guidance with her science-based, solid, reliable, totally trustworthy advice. Dr. Cohen: Well, thank you for having me. You have been, you know, a mentor among. Uh, a reasonably small group over the last 15 years learning this material, and so I, I am honored to be here.Ken: Well, there, there aren't enough physicians standing up the way you've stood up in your whole career, and so I want to dive right into it. First of all, the book is fantastic. I can't recommend it highly enough. If you're curious at all about how your personal health is affected by your environment specifically.The very topical issue of your immune system, your immune system, health and function. This is the book you need to read. It's, it's beautifully written and it's interspersed with lots of science that Dr. Cohen explains so well. And personal tips, advice, hacks, the whole thing. She's, she's got a 21 day plan, uh, that you can follow to really.Into action, all of the science and ideas in the book. So you're a board certified rheumatologist? Board certified internal medicine doctor. Integrative medicine doctor, functional medicine doctor, you've got all the certifications. Tell us what is a rheumatologist? Dr. Cohen: Yes, a rheumatologist and hopefully someone in the audience would not ever have to see a rheumatologist, but a rheumatologist.Ken: Yes. Dr. Cohen: Back in the day really came from this idea of rumors or, or flow of pain throughout the body, particularly the joints. That's a really old definition. Rheumatologists nowadays, in modern day times have expanded their role. I. To a variety of conditions, not just joint related, but joints tend to be the focus.And we deal with a lot of things like infectious etiologies, Lyme disease, babesiosis, Epstein Barr. We deal with crystal diseases like gout, and we deal with anything that tends to cause pain. I will be honest. And we're also detectives. I mean, I think if you ask most doctors or even specialists within the field of medicine also you'd say, they'd say that it's a field where when we don't know what's going on, we just send to a rheumatologist.And so that's kind of played into my work in environmental health, interestingly enough, because I'm trained to ask the questions. Um, even before I knew what I was asking in environmental health, that was the training in rheumatology is, is really thinking about all the different timeframes of. Symptoms and exposures to some degree.So yeah, it's informed my work in, in environmental medicine, certainly with the immune system effects Ken: and the immune system is one of the areas where we have seen the profession really, I think, step up. You know, we have seen, um, a lot of progress in terms of physicians recognizing the environmental dimensions.Of human health through effects on the immune system, of course, endocrine, decepting chemicals that no one was talking about until the sort of early, mid 1990s. What were some of the breakthrough moments that kind of put you on the path to incorporating environmental. Components to your assessment of your patient's health and to this exploration that you've, I mean, you've written several books on it, uh, including textbooks to really make sense and make practical sense for people, for patients of.Environmental insults. When did that happen for you? Dr. Cohen: Oh God. It's very, very simple. Not in, not in med school. Right. It was my dog getting sick. What? I had two boys and I was right outta training for fellowship in rheumatology and I had this beautiful golden retriever named Truckston. And um, at four and a half years of age young, he started getting sick and.We thought he had just swallowed a sock, like golden's stew or chewed off the siding like golden's stew just swallowed Ken: the sock diagnosis. Yeah. Very common with golden retrievers. Yeah. We'll, just for it to come Dr. Cohen: out the other end, you know, all's good, we'll just, you know, I got busy stuff to do. So long story short, the dog got sick, but he wasn't getting better and we finally figured out that he had autoimmune hepatitis, which is the body's immune system. We have this in humans as well. The body's immune system is attacking him at his liver. Basically looks at his liver as a foreign body, so the immune system's revved up attacking it, and his liver was really the size of a golf ball, which is entirely too small to function. By the time we actually got a formal DI diagnosis, and I think what was so shocking and jarring and set the motion. For the work I do now. Because if he had lived a long life, Ken, I mean if he had lived his, you know, golden retriever life of what? Lucky to have 10, 12, 13 years of life in a golden, if you're lucky, I would never be doing this work. And I know that for sure because his death at such a young age and the diagnosis being so close to the work I do with humans was so jarring to me. It was just so eye-opening that perhaps there was a reason he got sick. At such a young age. So I explored his water quality. I was looking at his dog food quality. Was it contaminated at that point? I think there was like melamine contamination in food from China for dog foods. Yeah. I looked at his flea and tick collar chemicals that I used to put between his shoulder blades and then kind of, yes, maybe forget to wash it off, you know, my hands or you know, just living life as if everything was regulated and everything was taken care of for me. Long story short, the more I started out of heartbreak looking into his exposures and I didn't realize I was doing an environmental health assessment, which I have now in this new book, but I didn't realize I was doing that out of heartbreak. And I started to see what was also not regulated in human exposure in the United States in terms of their chemicals, when they started to churn them out, whether they were tested. And where they get into our bodies from what sources. And you know, that's really the the start. It's a very honest and very real answer. I didn't know where I was going with that inquiry. I remember reaching out to one of the senior scientists at EWG, Joanna Congleton, and I said to her, I'm listening. I'm gonna start doing some lectures locally on environment. I'm just sort of picking this up. Yeah. Could you send me some material? And she was so taken aback. She said, we gotta, we gotta do something, we gotta work together and maybe we can get this into hospitals systems, grand rounds around the country. So she grew, you know, she basically, for a year, year and a half, she was educating me on how these chemicals work, what we've discovered. I. And I never knew that it never existed and med school was never teaching me this residency, so I didn't know what was real or not.  Ken: That's, uh, Dr. Joanna Congleton, who was at EWG for many years and then went on to a distinguished career at the Environmental Protection Agency. There's sometimes a, a, a special resistance or a special deep surprise when medical professionals are introduced to the area of toxic chemicals because I think. There's an expectation based on how much effort goes into evaluating medications and their potential side effects, and, uh, the, the relative rigor around that. It comes as a bit of a shock to think that there are so many chemicals in the environment that may not even have legal limits, but if they do have legal limits. They may not be limits that are safe.  Dr. Cohen: Absolutely. And when I was learning about how much of an effect, even parts per million parts per billion parts per trillion of bisphenol a phthalates, and then if you look at the equivalent of medication doses, lorazepam, some of our most common medication propanolol and what those parts per million trillion are for clinical effect. Yeah. To me it was just, wow, you know, we're not really even thinking. About these chemicals and how they may have an effect, even though we're giving weight to the medications. So yeah, you know, I think that coming from a field where in medical school what you learn is what you learn, and that's the end of it. And I try to explain it sometimes with other doctors, but we really walk out of medical school thinking that there is no other knowledge to really add to this picture and that the history is in those textbooks. And we know from long haul Covid that new diseases come up all the time. Do they ever, it just goes to this idea that it's a fluid field. Science is fluid. Our diagnostic abilities are fluid. We are very complicated creatures as humans with lots of confounders in terms of our exposures. But they have to be at least addressed and not ignored.  Ken: Yeah, that's right. And my good friends in industry are fond of saying the dose makes the poison often as a way of. Diminishing the importance of low doses, but we know from endocrine disruptors they can be impactful at exquisitely low levels. And you, I know you've made careful study of, of that area, [00:11:00] but also, you know, we're, we're all different. And the other dimension of this that does resonate when you talk it through with medical professionals is. That when we do fairly rigorously test, a particular class of toxic chemicals like pesticides are, you know, much more rigorously tested than most industrial chemicals as, as you well know. So something could be in your couch that gets into your body that you inhale or that you pick up through dust. We'll know much less about that than we might know about a pesticide at trace levels that gets to you through a conventionally grown apple. But the thing that always amazes me is when you explain to medical professionals that they're familiar with the side effects that often accompany drugs because in order to develop them and put them on the market, those side effects have to be explored usually through human trials, right? Whereas all this other stuff, we're inhaling, breathing, ingesting [00:12:00] that, um. Is in the realm of toxic chemicals. We never combine those. We never look at combinations of chemicals. We might have hundreds of toxic chemicals in our body at any one time. They're all approved, one at a time. We very rarely look for what are called side effects. We call them toxic effects. When you're interviewing a patient who comes to you with a problem, how do you find your way through? The environmental dimensions that might be at play that that person might have had no idea about. It can't be that easy to try and do that detective work,  Dr. Cohen: you know, it's not easy, but when you get, I mean, I'm seeing how many patients a week for how many years. So you start to get a gestalt of how to do this. And of course, you know, I'm training physician groups, three of 'em now to try to do what I've. I think I've managed to do, to give some guidance during these [00:13:00] initial evaluations, right? Yeah. Because people come in with fatigue and I talk about patients in the book and how I go about this, by the way. Yes. Because I want pa, I want people reading to identify with these very common complaints from a lots of people. But essentially what I'm doing is I'm taking the classic history and physical exam, let's just say the history. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of time in conventional Western medicine, so I will say that my practice is not set up. Any longer to be 15 minute appointments and 30 minutes for a new patient. That's the classic setup I take longer, which it takes longer, you know? So again, how do we scale this? It's, it's hard to do. Yeah, right? We need  Ken: changes in the system.  Dr. Cohen: We need changes in the system. I think that's one of the key issues why people are very disappointed with Western medicine. Not all. Of course, there's wonderful medications, wonderful doctors, but I'm just saying in general, we, we have a system that doesn't support the history, and I think the money's in the history as, as most rheumatologists would likely agree. [00:14:00] And that comes from the fact that you're not only just asking what medications someone's on, but where do they spend their time? Where are they exposed to potential harmful chemicals in their work, getting an occupational history at the same time? Where do you spend your time? You know, in terms of daycare or is there air fresheners being sprayed 24 hours a day? Which is what I managed early on with my kids, trying to figure out if that was normal to have sprays going on in a sealed tight, you know, daycare environment. Getting to questions like, what do you eat? I'm not judging. I wanna know. The exposure in a nonjudgmental way so that I can figure out what they value and where I can make inroads for change. And if I don't meet them where they're at, I'm certainly not going to have them help themselves with their own changes. I wanna find out all of the, the things that expose, you know, get exposed to them in their lifetime as much as I can. Obviously people run around and do lots of things in different [00:15:00] environments, but. You get a sense of what people value, what their diets that they prefer. If they've seen food as medicine reactions where they feel better without some, you know, you know, gluten or dairy or what have you. Sneaking that environmental health history. I have 50 questions in the book. They're very reasonable and a scorecard, so you can kind of see, and it goes to this assessment, right? I, I've, I've done these things called the four a's of environmental health. The first one is assess right, and that's part of the questioning. The second a, since I'll go right into it, is avoid or swap. Because once you know where the problems are, where these exposures come from, then you can make decisions like, should I have fewer cleaning chemicals? Maybe I don't need a door cleaner, a sink cleaner, a carpet cleaner, a window cleaner, a surface cleaner. You can make those in three ingredients or you can literally buy safer versions. Right? For sure. You know, EWG has a website assessing and then avoiding or toning down the number of [00:16:00] chemicals we're swapping to ones that are cleaner. The third A is add and adding in things that help the human body thrive. That we know in medicine and we know in human health and anthropology is nutrition, sleep. Yeah. Sweating exercise and the ways that we naturally can detoxify our body is so critical. And then the fourth, A that out of the four as that I've introduced and kind of the way I wrap my education with folks is, is allow, because I color my hair and my kids play lacrosse on artificial turf and we travel and maybe we go to dinner and we don't know exactly what's in the food. So there's an allow that allows us to be human. While we may still be making progress in other fronts. And that's how I frame. You know, the process even with patients and even as I post and and write things,  Ken: well that's such a, a great way to frame it, and I think in the hands of the right physician, it makes complete sense. Many times I get that clipboard [00:17:00] with the check boxes and so forth, and it seems like a chore. I mean, as you're describing it, that encounter. With medicine is one of the most important moments is for you to be asked the right questions. Think about them, give the right answer, and then turn it over to a Dr. Cohen could make all the difference in the world. It's not just the clipboard phase before you go into the exam room and show them. Your rash or whatever it might be that you're trying to get treatment for so important.  Dr. Cohen: Oh, it's, it's very important and I think, you know, look, I don't even wear a white coat. I look at as, I mean, I'm just talking about my own personal opinion about medicine in the sense that we don't learn a lot of the material that we absolutely should be learning here and now in 2025. No question about it. Nutrition absolutely plays into human health risk for disease. Um, so does environmental chemicals, which we now know we have robust data from around the world. You talk about it, I talk about it. I write about, you know, we have enough to learn this in medical school so that by the time students get out, they are equipped to ask the correct questions and have reasonable answers that they feel comfortable answering. You know, it's a shame because that initial meeting with your doctor, and I don't blame doctors at all. I really don't. I, I, I kind of look at the system that if we're not learning this to, at the start, it's, it's really hard to, to learn it after the fact. There's a partnership that goes with patients that I believe is missing, and I've been doing medicine for 22 years, so I think I have a right to say this. You know, I've been in every environment of training in hospitals and in big practices and small practices. And I think that people do the best when they are partnered with the doctor. And it, it doesn't have to be a handholding and kumbaya and singing down the, you know, whatever, skipping. It's more of an understanding that we're trying to help each other. We're trying to pull what we need to, to get this situation better and let's figure out a way to do it. And it may take more, you know, take, take work on the patient side. It may take a little more research on the doctor's side, but whatever time can allow. To me, a partnership has always been a better way to kind of move through really difficult cases. Not, you know, maybe not the average stuff, but I'm talking about some cases that are a little bit more confusing than what you're describing is. Is how do you suss out the symptoms from the environmental exposures? How do you say, well, is this association or is it causation? Very little in life in humans is causation directly, unless it's occupational at high exposures and you know that you can visibly chop up and see right away. What I'm talking about is the indolent exposures. This exposures that happen over time. The latency period, you know, we saw nine 11 victims. We saw 20 years later people getting sick and. We can identify that those were related to probably exposures at, at, at, you know, at nine 11. But you [00:20:00] know, again, it takes a lot of conversation to really suss out where you can make inroads. And if you can't and you don't get an exact diagnosis, which is what so many of my patients are in between diagnosis, they don't check all the boxes and they get written off. The fact of the matter is, is that there's still plenty you can do from a physiologic. An exposure standpoint that will make a difference in how your cells work, your organs work, and your risk for disease. So you can essentially change the destiny of your health by making really smart choices that are not expensive, that can be undertaken by anybody. That's the argument, and that's what the science shows to me.  Ken: It seems to me that as people begin to understand the interaction between their health and what they might be exposed to in the environment. And the demand grows for options to live life differently, including options in the marketplace to buy safer stuff or do without it. As people are doing that, [00:21:00] companies are coming out with smarter options, affordable options, closer to people. You don't have to live a perfect organic life, right? Uh, none of us can do it over the past. I would say 20, 25 years. You can hardly go to a major medical profession website now without having some mention. And some of them are really robust mention of the impact of the environment on that particular professional. It can be cardiovascular health, it can be the endocrine society. Worried about that. How do you see immune system disorders? Are they. Are we seeing them more often? Are we just diagnosing them better? Is it a combination of it being a real phenomenon of immune system dysregulation or dysfunction on the rise combined maybe with better, smarter diagnosis?  Dr. Cohen: Yeah, so the literature is pretty clear on this. We have an epidemic of autoimmune and immune disorders, um, worldwide. In the United States, it's estimated between seven and 14% of Americans have some type of autoimmune or immune condition. That's about 24 to 30 million Americans.  Ken: That's a lot of people. It's  Dr. Cohen: a lot of people. And this is going on worldwide. 'cause we're a global world, right? So we have people that move and travel and we have lots of the same products. Even though some of them may be arguably cleaner in other parts of the world, it still doesn't change the fact that we have a lot of ex chemicals that may override some of those choices that you can't always control, right? Environment, air pollution, that kind of thing. And it is an epidemic according to the epidemiologic papers, there's no question about it. We have a rise. I'd like to say we're better at diagnosing, but I would almost argue that we're less likely to diagnose because we have so little time with patients. And again, in the western culture of medicine and I'm, I'm in it. There's a real strong feeling that if you don't check all the boxes for the criteria for lupus, or you don't fit criteria for Crohn's or ulcerative colitis or rheumatoid arthritis, that you really don't have it.  Ken: You drop out.  Dr. Cohen: You drop out. Doctors have less tools in the toolbox to manage those patients. You know, I think again, it goes to this idea that, you know, we're complicated and if you don't fit all the criteria, you're not validated and they look great on paper. I write about this in the book, you know, they look great on paper. They've got. A limited number of labs because again, what you choose for lab tests has a lot to do with what your knowledge is. You, you only test for what you know, but if you know more, you're gonna think more about what else to test. Um, I'm always surprised by vitamin D levels, as an example, as a rheumatologist. But the Western journals always talk about vitamin D and being so important to the immune system for lupus patients and managing those D levels for rheumatoid. These are in Western journals, very, very well written, and yet I rarely see a rheumatology patient that comes to me that has ever been tested for vitamin D. I'm not saying that's the only thing to hang a hat on, but if there was one example of something that's so robustly discussed in Western. Literature as a remarkably important component to the immune system. The fact that it's never tested, or if it's tested, it might be dinged by Medicare for $300 because they don't wanna pay for it, is very, very shocking to me. So the idea is that we're not taking what we actually know and putting it into real clinical assessments and testing. And again, you don't test for things you don't fully understand, which I get. But maybe we should understand more and have more tools. So that we can expand what we are looking for in a reasonable way and be able to interpret that appropriately. You never test anything you can't interpret, but that's, but this is something we should be learning a little bit more about.  Ken: Yeah. It makes all the sense in the world. And so I, for anyone listening to this, please get out Aly's book Detoxify. I'll plug it again. The Everyday [00:25:00] Toxins harming your immune system and how to defend against them. And maybe give a copy to your doctor. I don't know.  Dr. Cohen: Well, it's a good thing you men, you know, I wanted to mention that because environmental health is, is tricky for so many doctors. And again, I don't throw them under the bus, especially practicing now, not even in training. I have information in there about which test to order through your insurance, which ICD 10 codes, your doctor could simply write on a prescription pad. With the right tests for heavy metals, cadmium, arsenic, lead, or the cancer screenings that are appropriate and should be used with an ICD 10 code in order to get paid for through insurance. So I want people to just be able to hand that to their healthcare provider and say, do you feel comfortable ordering these? If these are appropriate, and here's the ICD 10 codes, you don't even have to look them up. So I just don't want people to have to go to out of pocket. Labs, even though I have those in the book too, where you pad out of pocket, you can, you know, kind of bypass your own [00:26:00] primary care doctors or what have you. But I want all options on the table because I think it is important for us to at least dig deeper than what a lot of people are getting as answers.  Ken: Another thing I wanted to ask you about is, one of the things about the dose makes the poison that can be misleading is sometimes it depends on who's getting that dose, even if it's the same amount. And it depends on when they're getting the dose. And in your book you talk a lot about pregnant women. You talk about children being having special vulnerabilities. Say a little bit about those really important moments in someone's life journey and why. Paying special attention to those ages and those. Moments in life are so important.  Dr. Cohen: Well, let me start by saying, if I'd known better, I would've done better with my own kids. You know? 'cause this was after they'd been born. So I was doing, you know, drop in plastic, you [00:27:00] know, uh, formula containers. And I mean, I think back to the stain guarding, I sprayed all over my couch with my toddlers. I mean, you couldn't get a worse offender, right? So when I say this conversation, I always start with that too because I want people to think that this is not about regret. This is not about I'm bad, I should have done better. Especially if you have a kid with special needs or you know, you yourself are suffering from, you know, a breast cancer or another type of illness. I think it's really important to think it's no, no one's fault. That when you know better, you do better.  Ken: That's so important. Yeah. Look,  Dr. Cohen: I, I didn't realize why I gave up wearing my white coat. I think it was subconscious, but I gave it up because I really felt that that was designed specifically, and maybe, maybe I'm wrong, maybe other people would weigh in, in the medical field, but I look at that as a block between communication. I look at it as a hierarchy where my words mean more than your words, my feelings, my opinion, my knowledge is wor is more than yours. But I understand, you know, there [00:28:00] are times when, of course doctors do have more knowledge than their patients and I get that for sure. For sure. But's just one of those things that I toy with when it comes to communicating. 'cause my whole job, I think, for the past 15 years, aside from from seeing patients and really loving my work, is how do you communicate really dense, really broad topics into ways that people understand it. And I've had to practice this with social media and how I post. Or when I'm teaching, there has to be a problem to understand it. You need to understand the problem, but in the why, but you also need to have solutions to catch your, your, your, your fall. You know, and I think of course, that with medicine, you know, if we had more solutions, we'd be more apt to probably discuss these topics. Um, solutions being the knowledge around prevention and diet and how these things work. And look, I hear crazy stuff from patients and I, I will [00:29:00] legitimately cause some of them crazy, but, but I also look at it and I say to myself, well, maybe they're not crazy. Maybe there is science here that I should explore and why don't I take a minute and look it up. And they're doing great with this particular way of doing stuff. I think it takes a little humility to know as a human being, we all got lucky. If you're listening to this, you know, you didn't just, you know, you plopped down in the middle of wherever and your life took cold and. You know, if you're listening to this, you did pretty well. You know, I just like the humility of being a human on this planet as opposed to being a hierarchy of knowledge. Ken: Yeah, definitely not limited to public health doctors or professionals at all. But just to go back, so if you were Aly Cohen coming in to say, see Aly Cohen. Years ago before you had your kids, what would you have said to yourself?  Dr. Cohen: I would say the body is a sponge. I say this to my teenage, you know, students, our bodies are sponges and it starts with every tissue in our body. So when we're growing a baby, I mean, it's great to have. You know, planning skills, right? You know, if you're planning to have a family and you can work sort of to think about what you put in your body and maybe start cleaning up habits before you become pregnant, well that would be ideal. But a lot of people don't necessarily have that preconception thinking or knowledge. And I would say if you think of your body is a sponge, whether you put stuff on your skin. Whether you put it in your body, intravaginally, which has enormous, you know, with chemicals from tampons and personal care and douches and all these things that we, we, we use in society. Whether you breathe in your home, candles and air fresheners, if you think about your hu, your body as a sponge, and that we can measure the levels of those product chemicals in your body. Then maybe thinking about the environment of a growing, sensitive, vulnerable set of cells that become more cells that grow into more [00:31:00] cells, and you got this phenomenal brain that you're trying to protect for the future. Maybe thinking about all of the work that goes into laying down, I think it's 250,000 neurons are laid down every minute. That's a, that's a lot of cells to make up a, a brain. But  Ken: that's a lot of circuitry.  Dr. Cohen: Yes. A lot of circuitry. And it's a lot of places to intervene in a positive way, you know, in terms of cleaning up that environment and understanding that the placenta actually does not block the chemicals. We would hope they do. That's another component, um, is that we always think pregnancy is somehow protected. Evolutionarily, well, certainly it has been. But not for the 90 some thousand chemicals we now have in modern day time. And that's anthropology meets modern day. We have incredible physiology to detoxify, to grow beautiful babies, to, you know, to do wonderful things. But once you hit modern day times. Things have changed. You know, our food system has changed. Our soil quality has changed. Our air quality has changed. Our lifestyles changed. Some of us are working three jobs, some of us aren't sleeping, which helps reduce chemicals while we sleep. Some of us don't have time or energy or wanna exercise, which allows us to sweat. So our physiology is all hardwired. We've got great stuff, but we hit this block when we get to modern day times. So I would tell myself as a pregnant mom that I would just be very conscious of, I. Not just, you know, raw fish and things that are very classically shared, right? We all agree with that, you know, in terms of infection risk and Hepatitis A, those exposures. But thinking about chemicals that maybe pregnant mom didn't even know were a problem because we assume that if they're on the shelf, they're healthy and they're fine and someone's done their due diligence. That's the piece of information. It's twofold. It's these chemicals aren't tested for safety or toxicity before they go into our products. Guess what? We can choose better to not have them in our bodies. Those are the two pieces that I think are so critical to all of us, but incredibly important to the vulnerable periods of development like pregnancy and children and teenagers, and even menopause  Ken: for sure. And it turns it from fear to empowerment. If you can tell people, look, you have, you have choices out there, and if we keep. Sending the signal to the marketplace that we want safer choices, there'll be more choices  Dr. Cohen: for sure.  Ken: Let, I wanna talk a little bit about some of the. Practical advice. You already mentioned the four As, and so I'm thrilled to have that. But tell me about the, um, detoxify food pyramid and also about your 21 day plan.  Dr. Cohen: Yeah, well, look, I looked at what people have been doing before me. My mentor, Dr. Andrew Weill.  Ken: Mine too.  Dr. Cohen: Yeah, I mean, some of these people who have come before me have, have paved the way, fought the battle. Sixties, seventies, eighties, has stood up to, you know, a lot of. You know, I think messaging about pharmaceuticals being the only [00:34:00] choice when there are lots of other choices to integrate. I think, you know, there's a lot of people I observed and when it comes to the food pyramid, I kind of saw what was out there, what was was being presented. And even Dr. We has the anti-inflammatory Yeah. Pyramid. Right. And you know, I just kind of looked at all these, and the thing that stood out to me personally after having done a lot of this work was that there was no emphasis on the quality. Of those macros in the pyramid, and I believe in a Mediterranean diet. I believe that that is one of the most well studied anti-inflammatory successes. If you have to choose a diet, we know blue zones often incorporate. The Mediterranean type diet, um mm-hmm. In terms of, you know, mostly plant-based foods, whole foods, not processed foods. Mm-hmm. Moving up to, you know, high quality proteins, fish, chicken, moving up higher, even if you had red meat to have higher quality. What was missing for me [00:35:00] was the idea that if we could choose organic USDA organic foods, um, and had access to more. Available organic foods, which we now seem to have across the country, especially as frozen USDA organics that are highly nutritious,  Ken: gotten so much better. Right.  Dr. Cohen: And I thought to myself, if we don't look through the chemi, the lens of cleanliness for these foods, then in fact I actually put a study in, um, showing that in many ways it downregulates the Mediterranean Diet. If it's not clean, it's almost a conventional. In terms of its its chemical risks, so you can have a fabulous macros and fruits and vegetables and seeds and nuts, but if they're all loaded with chemicals, you've sort of brought it down to a level where it's sort of as inflammatory as a conventional diet in many ways. Ken: Before you go on, talk about inflammation, we hear it all the time. What's that all about?  Dr. Cohen: Inflammation is, your body's immune system is pissed. I'm gonna [00:36:00] simplify it. Your body's immune system is pissed. Okay. I mean, similar to the way you and I get pissed over a lot of stuff, I'm, I'm simplifying it because I think the immune system in and of itself is a very difficult topic. I, myself, as a rheumatologist, find it very difficult to follow the enormity of this topic. Yeah. But we have very, very antiquated. Immune system in human anthropology and evolution. And you see, I bring this up a lot 'cause I love anthropology and evolution because it really reminds me where we came from. We didn't just plop here with nice shoes and great cologne, right? We came from a long line of survival of the cells and a lot and, and, and of human beings evolving. And you know, technically speaking, you know, our bodies have required some of the same nutritional. Components and avoidance of some of the triggers to our immune system for millions of years. The immune system is working beautifully in modern day times. It's just [00:37:00] overactive, it's doing its job. Uh, it's like doing overtime, round the clock. Too  Ken: many signals coming in that it's trying to react to,  Dr. Cohen: right? Foreign bodies. These chemicals have only been in the human environment and existence for the last 75 to a hundred years. Especially after World War ii, right? Post World War ii, we had so many chemicals.  Ken: Better living through chemistry. Yeah.  Dr. Cohen: Yeah. Better learning through chemistry. And look, that was great for a lot of stuff. But the fact is, is that was a lot of change in a very short period of time for human physiology and human existence. And if you just look at that perspective that we've been here 4.5 million years, you know, some people might argue a little less or more, and then you only have these chemicals. Predominantly in all of the stuff we love and in our bodies over the last a hundred years, that's a really short time for the body to evolve and manage that load. Especially if it's not just one chemical or chemical group. We're talking a soup, right? We're getting it from a lot of different places. Plus maybe medications. Yeah. Right. A lot, whatever. [00:38:00] So the idea with the immune system is that it's constantly on, there's a low bubbling level of the human body really kind of. Percolating and doing its job and having surveillance at the cellular level. We know this, we have at the organ level and then we have it at the, the whole body level, right? Dermatitis, rash, red eyes, whatever, what we see in the mirror and inflammation has kind of been sort of the best way to describe, you know, the immune system is, is really been triggered. And the question is to how, to what degree, how much to what degree, and whether or not it calms down, whether it's over inflamed, whether or not it's something like an autoimmune disease where it's constantly on because your body was triggered towards self. And so there's just, there's a lot of ways to describe the conditions that we talk about, autoimmune and immune disorders, but the idea that inflammation is sort of the backdrop. Is, is really important to understand and that the cells that are turned on can be also quieted down with what, with our behaviors and our changes and, and things I describe in the book.  Ken: How does this understanding of immunology and, uh, inflammation and so forth, how did that, how does that shape the detoxify food pyramid that you've come up with? Dr. Cohen: I looked at what are the highest yield exposure changes that we can make, just, you know. By volume, what do we consume the most that could be problematic? Um, what do we drink the most from a food, from a water quality perspective? Having understood that, that was a whole nother lift, right, is not just the food system. Yes. But understanding how the food, the water system in this country works. I could go on for an hour on that one and understanding that your best choices are the high yield ones. And so the food pyramid to me made a lot of sense. I at the bottom, I have. Food packaging. Food packaging contributes so much of the [00:40:00] harmful chemicals. Now, we can't always control food packaging. I mean, we're not all manufacturers. We don't all grow our own food. Yeah. We don't, you know, always have a, a great farmer's market around. But the idea was that if we don't think about food packaging at the bottom of the pyramid as a contributor, then I put I think food, and then I put water. Or the other way around. But either way, those two, to me, people underestimate water in terms of the effects on human health, and I really wanted to make sure that I put that information in as well. All the options to clean water are just as important as all the ways we think of food and cleaning that up. So the pyramid really added a couple levels that I don't think were thought about in other pyramids.  Ken: Fantastic. Tell us about the 21 day plan. Three weeks I could manage three weeks. I'm, I'm. I'm gonna go on the plan, but explain to everybody what it is and how you formulated it.  Dr. Cohen: You know, it's based on what people read throughout the beginning of the book and understand sort of the basis for [00:41:00] it. But the 21 day plan, it's interesting you, you know, when you write books, I've only written a couple, but you know, you don't know what's gonna resonate, right? You really don't know what's gonna hit people, and for whatever reason, this is the piece out of several bells and whistles that people have really embraced. Because again, it's a tough topic and people are nervous. They don't know where to begin. I didn't know where to begin. I mean, I wish I had this book 15 years ago, right? Yeah. I didn't know where to begin. But the 21 day plan makes it very simple. Day one, do this, day two, do this day three do. This starts with assess, then it moves to avoid and swap and how to do it on those days. Then you have the add, which is the nutritional component, the appropriate supplements if they're necessary, and how to vet them out because there's so much junk in the supplement market, exercise, diet, stress, all the integrative approaches that I learned from Dr. Weill and others, I. And then the allow is at the, at the end of the 21 days in order to keep you [00:42:00] motivated. You know, a, a realist, not a purist, is what I tell people. The, the, the allow at the end really is to say, don't give up. This is just the beginning. And guess what? You've come so far. You're going to have stumbles, you're gonna have things you wanna enjoy, that's okay. But look of, look what you've done. And so I think 21 was the right number of days to get people really on the right track, at least in my opinion. Ken: So let me summarize.  Dr. Cohen: Yeah,  Ken: you're supposed to be perfect on day one and keep being perfect for 21. No, it's not that. No, I think,  Dr. Cohen: no.  Ken: Yeah,  Dr. Cohen: I'm still not perfect. We're not perfect people. Humans are not perfect, but we do the best we can.  Ken: Uh, that's why I hope this book. Gets in everyone's hands. Uh, what do you think is next, just generally for progress with environmental health? What's next for you after you get off a a prolonged successful book tour?  Dr. Cohen: It's a great question. What do I think is next? First of all, in 15 years you and I could both talk about this. [00:43:00] What has changed just in the market, you know? Yeah. There's a lot that hasn't changed. There's a lot of toxic stuff. I mean, I see these air fresheners at six in the morning on, you know, whatever channel, and I'm just thinking how horrific, and I wanna take pictures and shout. There's a lot that hasn't changed, but boy has the awareness. Really jacked up totally over the last, you know, I would say even five to 10 years max. Because again, there's this cross section between people getting sick and looking for answers and it tying to many of the things that people think about like exposure and behaviors and lifestyle for sure. And whether they're sedentary and all those things. So I think because there's a need and people are getting sick or relatives are getting sick, there's people exploring what could have done this. Okay. But aside from that, I think we're getting a lot more media attention because the science is there. It's just being brought to the forefront. And I say science because I believe in science. I believe in well done studies. I believe they should be funded, and I think that's what's gonna ultimately help us in the long run, in the short run. I don't believe in waiting for anyone to save me. I believe in, you know, having the tools, having the right vetted resources that are evergreen, that I don't manage, that do their job really well, like EWG. I believe in those resources being helpful and part of the educational process, but that we have to do it for ourselves and we have to because we can't wait for laws to change entirely. Red dye number three is just one of many dies that was taken out of the market. We have per fluora, maybe six will come out of the water system if we're lucky they're 15,000 more. We have to think about how to filter all of them out in our home, in our glass. And I think your work, my work, what we're trying to do is really give people agency to make those decisions for themselves instead of waiting. So what's changed is a lot of that awareness of being proactive. And as I move forward, I'm doing a lot of teaching. I've found that somehow that's been what people [00:45:00] want and I've been creating courses for the smart human.com is my platform. Yes. On social media. It's a wonderful platform. You know, trying to get as much information around a system like medical system, things that don't gimme love or you know, or I go where the love is and it seems to be the consumers love it. Students love this information. Integrative medicine and functional medicine programs love. To learn this and, and I embrace where people want to hear this. So, so that's what I'll, what I'll be doing after a book tour, I can assure you, is just continuing the same work but in different venues, I hope.  Ken: Well, thank you for doing it and I know we'll be partnering again and again in the months and years ahead. We don't have a more valuable ally than Dr. Aly Cohen. And I just wanna congratulate you again on your amazing book, detoxify. The everyday toxins harming your immune system and how to defend against them. Thank you for your time and thank you for your [00:46:00] commitment to a different way of visualizing and practicing, and I think for consumers, patients receiving medical care. I'm, I'm so grateful to you  Dr. Cohen: and I'm grateful to you for thanks for teaching me When I was first learning, because it was EWG that really taught me the most of. And how to get started. I really believe that. So thank you so much for that and your work,  Ken: Dr. Aly Cohen's new book is Detoxify The Everyday Toxins Harming Your Immune System and How to Defend against them. Head on over to our show notes for a direct link to the book so you can get your copy. And thank you Dr. Cohen. And I also wanna thank all of you out there for listening if you'd like to learn more. Be sure to check out our show notes for additional links to take a deeper dive into today's discussion. Make sure to follow our show on Instagram at Ken Cooks podcast. And if you're interested in learning more about ewg, head over to ewg.org or check out the [00:47:00] ewg Instagram account at Environmental Working Group. If this episode resonated with you or you think someone you know would benefit from it, send it along. The best way to make positive change is to start as a community. Within your community. Today's episode was produced by the Extraordinary Beth Row and Mary Kelly. Our show's theme music is by Moby. Thank you Moby, and thanks again to all of you for listening. Press Contact JR Culpepper jr.culpepper@ewg.org (202) 779-9990 May 22, 2025